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	<title>John Gruber &#8211; Wade Tregaskis</title>
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	<title>John Gruber &#8211; Wade Tregaskis</title>
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		<title>The most unpopular popular websites</title>
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		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Jan 2024 05:08:17 +0000</pubDate>
				<category><![CDATA[Ramblings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bing]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Daring Fireball]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[DuckDuckGo]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Google]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Google Search]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[John Gruber]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Kagi]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Pinterest]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Wikipedia]]></category>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">https://wadetregaskis.com/?p=7426</guid>

					<description><![CDATA[Tonight I decided to give Kagi a try, after hearing John Gruber mention it a few times on Daring Fireball. I&#8217;ve used a mix of DuckDuckGo and Bing for over a decade now, and occasionally will still try Google in desperation. What I&#8217;ve noticed is a decade-long trend &#8211; accelerating in the last year or&#8230; <a class="read-more-link" href="https://wadetregaskis.com/the-most-unpopular-popular-websites/" data-wpel-link="internal">Read more</a>]]></description>
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<p>Tonight I decided to give Kagi a try, after hearing <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gruber" data-wpel-link="external" target="_blank" rel="external noopener">John Gruber</a> <a href="https://daringfireball.net/linked/2024/01/19/bray-google-kagi" data-wpel-link="external" target="_blank" rel="external noopener">mention</a> <a href="https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/05/22/neeva-shuts-down" data-wpel-link="external" target="_blank" rel="external noopener">it</a> <a href="https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/11/14/masnick-google-better" data-wpel-link="external" target="_blank" rel="external noopener">a</a> <a href="https://daringfireball.net/linked/2023/10/12/cue-apple-google" data-wpel-link="external" target="_blank" rel="external noopener">few</a> <a href="https://daringfireball.net/2008/09/podcasters_rejection" data-wpel-link="external" target="_blank" rel="external noopener">times</a> on <a href="https://daringfireball.net" data-wpel-link="external" target="_blank" rel="external noopener">Daring Fireball</a>.  I&#8217;ve used a mix of DuckDuckGo and Bing <a href="https://wadetregaskis.com/do-you-mean-what-you-mean/" data-wpel-link="internal">for over a decade now</a>, and occasionally will still try Google in desperation<sup data-fn="e4dbde6a-2d84-4002-a2cc-2d42ffcc2e90" class="fn"><a href="#e4dbde6a-2d84-4002-a2cc-2d42ffcc2e90" id="e4dbde6a-2d84-4002-a2cc-2d42ffcc2e90-link">1</a></sup>.  What I&#8217;ve noticed is a decade-long trend &#8211; accelerating in the last year or two &#8211; of search quality declining.  I&#8217;m apparently not the <a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2023/09/google-search-size-usefulness-decline/675409/" data-wpel-link="external" target="_blank" rel="external noopener">only</a> <a href="https://downloads.webis.de/publications/papers/bevendorff_2024a.pdf" data-wpel-link="external" target="_blank" rel="external noopener">one</a>.</p>



<p>At first it was just Google that went to shit, but now even Bing &amp; DuckDuckGo are increasingly filled with SEO spam, garbage results, and ads.  Worst of all, they&#8217;re increasingly unwilling to address my <em>actual</em> queries, preferring instead to serve up uselessly generic results and insulting clickbait.</p>



<p>Is Kagi any better?  Hard to say; I only just started playing with it.  It looks promising at the outset, but only time will tell.</p>



<p>Kagi does have at least one incredibly non-novel yet unique feature:  the ability to permanently customise the ranking of each website in your results.  <em>Personalised search done the right way</em>.</p>


<div class="wp-block-image">
<figure class="aligncenter size-full"><img fetchpriority="high" decoding="async" width="417" height="694" src="https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-result-information-settings-dialog.webp" alt="Screenshot of the information &amp; settings dialog for medium.com on Kagi Search" class="wp-image-7434" srcset="https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-result-information-settings-dialog.webp 417w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-result-information-settings-dialog-154x256.webp 154w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-result-information-settings-dialog-308x512.webp 308w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-result-information-settings-dialog@2x.webp 834w" sizes="(max-width: 417px) 100vw, 417px" /></figure>
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<p>You can give a website a nudge up or down, or take it to the extreme by pinning or blocking the website entirely.  <em>This</em> is what actually got me to sign up for Kagi.  I can&#8217;t tell you how many times I&#8217;ve looked at Bing, DuckDuckGo, or Google search results and said &#8220;for fuck&#8217;s sake, why do you even allow this website in your index?&#8221;.  Over and over again, the top page of results is clogged with those rip-off merchants that clone e.g. Wikipedia or StackOverflow, and just stuff them full of ads and trackers.  I genuinely can&#8217;t fathom how these websites, clearly commercialising industrial-scale copyright infringement, can persist.</p>



<p>We&#8217;ll come back to this feature in a minute.</p>



<h2 class="wp-block-heading">Kagi Search Stats</h2>



<p>While playing with Kagi, I incidentally found their <a href="https://kagi.com/stats" data-wpel-link="external" target="_blank" rel="external noopener">Search Stats</a>.  Which are interesting for several reasons &#8211; for a start, as I write they have just 19,468 &#8220;members&#8221; &#8211; which I take to mean <em>paying</em> customers &#8211; which seems crazy tiny even for a search engine which has essentially <a href="https://blog.kagi.com/kagi-orion-public-beta" data-wpel-link="external" target="_blank" rel="external noopener">only been around for seven months</a>, given they&#8217;ve received some high-profile evangelism (such as the aforementioned by John Gruber).  At least they&#8217;re growing.</p>


<div class="wp-block-image">
<figure class="aligncenter size-full"><img decoding="async" width="974" height="598" src="https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Members.webp" alt="Screenshot of the Kagi Search Stats web page showing the Member Count section (19,468 members), with a line graph showing a steady increase in members between January 7th and January 20th, of about 500 new members in total." class="wp-image-7431" srcset="https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Members.webp 974w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Members-256x157.webp 256w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Members-512x314.webp 512w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Members@2x.webp 1948w" sizes="(max-width: 974px) 100vw, 974px" /></figure>
</div>


<p>But perhaps the most interesting is what they call &#8220;Domain insights&#8221;, which is a polite way of saying &#8220;best &amp; worst big websites&#8221; &#8211; at least, as expressed by Kagi&#8217;s 19,468 members.  This is the summary of all those ranking customisations Kagi&#8217;s users have made.  As such, I think it&#8217;s an interesting insight into what people consider <em>good</em> websites as opposed to <em>popular</em>.</p>



<p>On the positive (most-favoured) side, there&#8217;s not a lot of surprises.  Wikipedia tops the list by a mile &#8211; specifically the <em>English</em> version of Wikipedia, suggesting Kagi might have a very U.S.-centric user base &#8211; followed by a variety developer-centric websites, with Reddit being really the only other exception.  As one might expect, the early adopters of Kagi are computer geeks.</p>


<div class="wp-block-image">
<figure class="aligncenter size-full"><img decoding="async" width="422" height="605" src="https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Most-pinned-websites.webp" alt="Screenshot of the Kagi Search Stats page showing Most Pinned websites: (in descending order) Wikipedia, developer.mozilla.org, news.ycombinator.com, reddit.com, stackoverflow.com, wiki.archlinux.org, and github.com." class="wp-image-7440" srcset="https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Most-pinned-websites.webp 422w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Most-pinned-websites-179x256.webp 179w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Most-pinned-websites-357x512.webp 357w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Most-pinned-websites@2x.webp 844w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Most-pinned-websites-179x256@2x.webp 358w" sizes="(max-width: 422px) 100vw, 422px" /></figure>
</div>


<p>It&#8217;s the &#8216;negative&#8217; side that&#8217;s most interesting.  Remember that in order to get on these lists you have to actually be a major website, well known and a frequent-enough occurrence in search results that a large number of people have told you to bugger off.  So it&#8217;s essentially revealing the sentiment towards the &#8216;popular&#8217; websites.</p>


<div class="wp-block-image">
<figure class="aligncenter size-full"><img loading="lazy" decoding="async" width="385" height="1055" src="https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Most-blocked-websites.webp" alt="Screenshot of the Kagi Search Stats page showing Most Blocked websites: (in descending order) numerous Pinterest sites, Fox News, Facebook, Breitbart, TikTok, Quora, DailyMail, w3schools, and Instagram." class="wp-image-7439" srcset="https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Most-blocked-websites.webp 385w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Most-blocked-websites-93x256.webp 93w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Most-blocked-websites-187x512@2x.webp 374w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Most-blocked-websites-187x512.webp 187w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Most-blocked-websites@2x.webp 770w, https://wadetregaskis.com/wp-content/uploads/2024/01/Kagi-Search-Stats-Most-blocked-websites-93x256@2x.webp 186w" sizes="auto, (max-width: 385px) 100vw, 385px" /></figure>
</div>


<p>It surprised me to see Pinterest at the top.  Not just the top position, but the top <em>seven</em> positions, accounting for their various geo-specific site variants.</p>



<p>I myself resent Pinterest&#8217;s existence because I find that the dominant search engines prioritise Pinterest over far superior matches, to an absurd degree.  I can recall only <em>one</em> time, in my life, where I visited Pinterest and actually got <em>any</em> benefit out of it.  <em>One</em>.</p>



<p>But, I didn&#8217;t realise so many others felt similarly.</p>



<p>The rest of the results are much less surprising to me.  Fox News &amp; Breitbart for their political nature (DailyMail&#8217;s presumably in the same bucket).  Facebook because it&#8217;s a horrible turd on <em>so</em> many levels but most pertinently because it essentially can&#8217;t be viewed without being signed in<sup data-fn="b80b89d2-ce3d-41a1-92d7-275d86090469" class="fn"><a href="#b80b89d2-ce3d-41a1-92d7-275d86090469" id="b80b89d2-ce3d-41a1-92d7-275d86090469-link">2</a></sup>.  Instagram apparently gets marginally less hate from the computer geek community, even though it falls into the same bucket as Facebook in that respect (and others).</p>



<p>I&#8217;m slightly surprised to see <a href="https://www.w3schools.com" data-wpel-link="external" target="_blank" rel="external noopener">w3schools</a> in the list, as though I&#8217;m aware it&#8217;s not &#8220;cool&#8221; to use it as a web developer, frankly I use it all the time because they have <a href="https://www.w3schools.com/cssref/css_selectors.php" data-wpel-link="external" target="_blank" rel="external noopener">better summaries of key CSS features</a> than <a href="https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/CSS/Attribute_selectors" data-wpel-link="external" target="_blank" rel="external noopener">Mozilla&#8217;s developer docs</a>.</p>


<ol class="wp-block-footnotes"><li id="e4dbde6a-2d84-4002-a2cc-2d42ffcc2e90">When my primary search engine fails me.  Google has a more extensive index than Bing / DuckDuckGo, so sometimes it&#8217;s the only one of the Big Three that can find a relatively niche or unloved page. <a href="#e4dbde6a-2d84-4002-a2cc-2d42ffcc2e90-link" aria-label="Jump to footnote reference 1">↩︎</a></li><li id="b80b89d2-ce3d-41a1-92d7-275d86090469">Incidentally, if your restaurant&#8217;s menu is only available on a Facebook page, congratulations, you will never count me amongst your customers. <a href="#b80b89d2-ce3d-41a1-92d7-275d86090469-link" aria-label="Jump to footnote reference 2">↩︎</a></li></ol>]]></content:encoded>
					
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